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	<title>Comments on: From Paul Seaman: defending public relations against social media hype&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/</link>
	<description>Global discussion of public relations from local perspectives</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1811</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1811</guid>
		<description>Toni, you&#039;re right about the slides. But I&#039;m not one of those people who have an agenda directed against Grunig. I accept some things are changing.

Grunig deserves a more considered reply from me than pithy comments, I&#039;m disappointed now that I posted one yesterday (apologies). To set the record straight, I shall post a considered assessment of Grunig&#039;s thinking on my blog at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toni, you&#8217;re right about the slides. But I&#8217;m not one of those people who have an agenda directed against Grunig. I accept some things are changing.</p>
<p>Grunig deserves a more considered reply from me than pithy comments, I&#8217;m disappointed now that I posted one yesterday (apologies). To set the record straight, I shall post a considered assessment of Grunig&#8217;s thinking on my blog at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: Toni Muzi Falconi</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1810</link>
		<dc:creator>Toni Muzi Falconi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1810</guid>
		<description>Paul,
if you take a good look at Jim&#039;s slides in no way does he imply anything like you write.

In fact he refers to digitalization, which is a much wider concept than just social media.

And he also specifically titles one of his slides (number 7) &#039;new media alone will not change the paradigm of public relations&#039;.

The paradigm shift Jim refers to implies much more:
i.e. abandoning the symbolic interpretative approach and adopting a strategic behavioural approach.

Our community is populated by many individuals who voluntarily misinterpret Jim.
The reason is probably that behind these voluntary misinterpretations often lie, for opposite motivations,  business as usual&#039; preferences.
I am sure this is not your case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,<br />
if you take a good look at Jim&#8217;s slides in no way does he imply anything like you write.</p>
<p>In fact he refers to digitalization, which is a much wider concept than just social media.</p>
<p>And he also specifically titles one of his slides (number 7) &#8216;new media alone will not change the paradigm of public relations&#8217;.</p>
<p>The paradigm shift Jim refers to implies much more:<br />
i.e. abandoning the symbolic interpretative approach and adopting a strategic behavioural approach.</p>
<p>Our community is populated by many individuals who voluntarily misinterpret Jim.<br />
The reason is probably that behind these voluntary misinterpretations often lie, for opposite motivations,  business as usual&#8217; preferences.<br />
I am sure this is not your case.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1809</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1809</guid>
		<description>Grunig talks about social media representing a paradigm shift for public relations. That is off the mark, I fear, because it is not aligned with reality. Though, of course, it is true that some things are changing. I shall come back to Grunig. There is much to explore, admire and to question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grunig talks about social media representing a paradigm shift for public relations. That is off the mark, I fear, because it is not aligned with reality. Though, of course, it is true that some things are changing. I shall come back to Grunig. There is much to explore, admire and to question.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1808</guid>
		<description>Paul, thanks for the considered response, particularky the clarification of your thoughts on the Edeklman Trust survey - by and large I agreed with your &quot;would you trusts a survey?&quot; post.

I am continuing to work on a properly thought through exposition of why social media is heralding a paradigm shift for PR theory and am grateful to Toni for the Grunig chapters and powerpoint which forms a challenging framework for such a critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, thanks for the considered response, particularky the clarification of your thoughts on the Edeklman Trust survey &#8211; by and large I agreed with your &#8220;would you trusts a survey?&#8221; post.</p>
<p>I am continuing to work on a properly thought through exposition of why social media is heralding a paradigm shift for PR theory and am grateful to Toni for the Grunig chapters and powerpoint which forms a challenging framework for such a critique.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1807</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1807</guid>
		<description>Philip, thanks for the feedback. Your interesting comment gives me a chance to nail one or two possible misunderstanding which may have slipped in because of my desire to be striking and non-academic in style. Here goes:

(1) I do indeed say I am a conservative and it&#039;s because I think in our mature democracies both individual opinion and mass opinion is properly mediated through representatives. In other words, and in short, we have evolved a tradition that opinions, developments, policies and decisions are best judged and balanced and made after careful deliberation and usually by a small number of people properly deputed for the task. In that sense, my opinion and any others&#039; opinions are of interest and of some importance. But they are calibrated against others&#039;, and things become settled by a process which isn&#039;t directly democratic (in the sense that isn&#039;t demotic), but which is more fully democratic because not overly personal.

The social media &quot;model&quot; in effect risks undoing this evolution by asserting that remarks are of interest simply because they got made, and amplified, by people and within the crowd. This is - at least potentially - the antithesis of civilisation.

(2) You are right to call me out on admiring Bernays (as has Heather Yaxley on other occasions). I do admire the man&#039;s cleverness. But I concede, and should have said, that he is also a little sinister. If I understand Adam Curtis right, and if Curtis is right in his The Selfish Century, Bernays did believe that the power of persuasion and propaganda came in part from its ability to play on mass fears - the fears that lie in crowds - rather than in rational explanation or elevated exhortation. I shall revisit this theme (as promised before in a reply to Toni Muzi Falconi), but meanwhile thanks for this chance to offer a more detailed heads up.

(3) I hope I never said anything which would lead anyone to suppose I think the Edelman Barometer is even remotely evil. I think it is over interpreted and in ways I don&#039;t agree with, is all. Perhaps I should have provided the link to the piece I wrote from my home on Zurich lake as the world’s leaders flew over my home (disturbing my sleep) on their way to Davos - http://paulseaman.eu/2009/01/would-you-trust-a-trust-survey
I’d be interested to hear your comments on my analysis.

(4) I am not very cross about Twitter and all the rest, nor even unduly frightened by it all. I am sceptical that social media will be all that powerful a force, for good or ill. But I am not in the prediction business. Rather, I am trying to oppose the analysis, which suggests that the world has been going in the wrong direction - away from enlightenment and good society (I’m more upbeat than most commentators, including Edelman, not less).

(5) By the way, I do indeed see PR as mostly a matter of corporate (institutional) communications – whether we are talking about firms, charities, governments or academic bodies. That&#039;s because most of it is (product is another form of marketing, is it not?). I do think many PR insights apply to politics, and they also apply to other non-commercial activities (religion, for one, and most single issue campaigners for another).

But then, PR is a sort of propaganda and there are lots of propagandists. I do not discount that PR is also a two-way process by which its sponsors (whether firms, parties, sects or campaigns) can listen as well as persuade and advocate. These entities may listen in order to learn and change, but they mostly listen so as to get better at propagandising.

In conclusion, I don&#039;t recognise the paradigm shift you refer to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip, thanks for the feedback. Your interesting comment gives me a chance to nail one or two possible misunderstanding which may have slipped in because of my desire to be striking and non-academic in style. Here goes:</p>
<p>(1) I do indeed say I am a conservative and it&#8217;s because I think in our mature democracies both individual opinion and mass opinion is properly mediated through representatives. In other words, and in short, we have evolved a tradition that opinions, developments, policies and decisions are best judged and balanced and made after careful deliberation and usually by a small number of people properly deputed for the task. In that sense, my opinion and any others&#8217; opinions are of interest and of some importance. But they are calibrated against others&#8217;, and things become settled by a process which isn&#8217;t directly democratic (in the sense that isn&#8217;t demotic), but which is more fully democratic because not overly personal.</p>
<p>The social media &#8220;model&#8221; in effect risks undoing this evolution by asserting that remarks are of interest simply because they got made, and amplified, by people and within the crowd. This is &#8211; at least potentially &#8211; the antithesis of civilisation.</p>
<p>(2) You are right to call me out on admiring Bernays (as has Heather Yaxley on other occasions). I do admire the man&#8217;s cleverness. But I concede, and should have said, that he is also a little sinister. If I understand Adam Curtis right, and if Curtis is right in his The Selfish Century, Bernays did believe that the power of persuasion and propaganda came in part from its ability to play on mass fears &#8211; the fears that lie in crowds &#8211; rather than in rational explanation or elevated exhortation. I shall revisit this theme (as promised before in a reply to Toni Muzi Falconi), but meanwhile thanks for this chance to offer a more detailed heads up.</p>
<p>(3) I hope I never said anything which would lead anyone to suppose I think the Edelman Barometer is even remotely evil. I think it is over interpreted and in ways I don&#8217;t agree with, is all. Perhaps I should have provided the link to the piece I wrote from my home on Zurich lake as the world’s leaders flew over my home (disturbing my sleep) on their way to Davos &#8211; <a href="http://paulseaman.eu/2009/01/would-you-trust-a-trust-survey" rel="nofollow">http://paulseaman.eu/2009/01/would-you-trust-a-trust-survey</a><br />
I’d be interested to hear your comments on my analysis.</p>
<p>(4) I am not very cross about Twitter and all the rest, nor even unduly frightened by it all. I am sceptical that social media will be all that powerful a force, for good or ill. But I am not in the prediction business. Rather, I am trying to oppose the analysis, which suggests that the world has been going in the wrong direction &#8211; away from enlightenment and good society (I’m more upbeat than most commentators, including Edelman, not less).</p>
<p>(5) By the way, I do indeed see PR as mostly a matter of corporate (institutional) communications – whether we are talking about firms, charities, governments or academic bodies. That&#8217;s because most of it is (product is another form of marketing, is it not?). I do think many PR insights apply to politics, and they also apply to other non-commercial activities (religion, for one, and most single issue campaigners for another).</p>
<p>But then, PR is a sort of propaganda and there are lots of propagandists. I do not discount that PR is also a two-way process by which its sponsors (whether firms, parties, sects or campaigns) can listen as well as persuade and advocate. These entities may listen in order to learn and change, but they mostly listen so as to get better at propagandising.</p>
<p>In conclusion, I don&#8217;t recognise the paradigm shift you refer to.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1806</guid>
		<description>I have just come back from the Stirling 21 conference for PR academics and am still thinking about Magda Pieczka&#039;s observation that PR was about advocacy not dialogue. I think she was saying that it is naive to see any PR as in any way distinct from persuasion, which suggests it is incompatible with some of the claims made for social media as a force that will revolutionise PR.

I was trying to reconcile this with my own thinking on the impact of social media.

And then I read Paul&#039;s post.

I think he is right. But only right if you see PR as corporate communications. And as able to accept Bernays etc as heroes.

And are able to swallow the claim that the Edelman Trust barometer is a force for evil.

Then again, I guess I am not a conservative.

I do see the world in terms of power relationships, and I don&#039;t think Twittering will change the world. But I do believe that the fundamental shifts in the direction, complexity and aggregations of communication heralded by social media represent a paradign shift.

The world has changed Paul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just come back from the Stirling 21 conference for PR academics and am still thinking about Magda Pieczka&#8217;s observation that PR was about advocacy not dialogue. I think she was saying that it is naive to see any PR as in any way distinct from persuasion, which suggests it is incompatible with some of the claims made for social media as a force that will revolutionise PR.</p>
<p>I was trying to reconcile this with my own thinking on the impact of social media.</p>
<p>And then I read Paul&#8217;s post.</p>
<p>I think he is right. But only right if you see PR as corporate communications. And as able to accept Bernays etc as heroes.</p>
<p>And are able to swallow the claim that the Edelman Trust barometer is a force for evil.</p>
<p>Then again, I guess I am not a conservative.</p>
<p>I do see the world in terms of power relationships, and I don&#8217;t think Twittering will change the world. But I do believe that the fundamental shifts in the direction, complexity and aggregations of communication heralded by social media represent a paradign shift.</p>
<p>The world has changed Paul.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1805</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1805</guid>
		<description>Jo has done a good job summing parts of my argument.  Jo wants to move beyond hype - that&#039;s the why to go. I recommend the post to others.

One reservation that I have with Jo&#039;s position is that I think that it will be a long time before anybody finds long-term substantial profits in social media. The first victors might well be so-called old-fashioned media, which are well on the way to successfully co-opting the social media networks.

@jo I&#039;d be interested to hear your comments on my debate with Neville Hobson, the UK social media blogger. Here&#039;s a good place to start:

http://paulseaman.eu/2009/09/theres-no-social-media-revolution/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jo has done a good job summing parts of my argument.  Jo wants to move beyond hype &#8211; that&#8217;s the why to go. I recommend the post to others.</p>
<p>One reservation that I have with Jo&#8217;s position is that I think that it will be a long time before anybody finds long-term substantial profits in social media. The first victors might well be so-called old-fashioned media, which are well on the way to successfully co-opting the social media networks.</p>
<p>@jo I&#8217;d be interested to hear your comments on my debate with Neville Hobson, the UK social media blogger. Here&#8217;s a good place to start:</p>
<p><a href="http://paulseaman.eu/2009/09/theres-no-social-media-revolution/" rel="nofollow">http://paulseaman.eu/2009/09/theres-no-social-media-revolution/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jo Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>I printed out your post, as I said and tried to get to the nub of it.

It should come up in about 15minutes at http://flowingmotion.wordpress.com - that is on Wednesday 10th.

I&#039;ll be interested in what you make of my summary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I printed out your post, as I said and tried to get to the nub of it.</p>
<p>It should come up in about 15minutes at <a href="http://flowingmotion.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://flowingmotion.wordpress.com</a> &#8211; that is on Wednesday 10th.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be interested in what you make of my summary.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1803</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1803</guid>
		<description>@jo yes, the invention of the telegraph did indeed enable electronic news agencies to function and for the industry to improve upon the carrier pigeons and messengers of old.

I agree with you about the limitation of sweeping statements (always a danger when making pithy comments, and I am guilty sometimes, I know). My understanding of the rules is on my website in two articles debating Neville Hobson. The first of these was entitled &quot;Debate: social media changes business basics?&quot; and can be read here:

http://paulseaman.eu/2009/08/debate-social-media-changes-business-basics/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jo yes, the invention of the telegraph did indeed enable electronic news agencies to function and for the industry to improve upon the carrier pigeons and messengers of old.</p>
<p>I agree with you about the limitation of sweeping statements (always a danger when making pithy comments, and I am guilty sometimes, I know). My understanding of the rules is on my website in two articles debating Neville Hobson. The first of these was entitled &#8220;Debate: social media changes business basics?&#8221; and can be read here:</p>
<p><a href="http://paulseaman.eu/2009/08/debate-social-media-changes-business-basics/" rel="nofollow">http://paulseaman.eu/2009/08/debate-social-media-changes-business-basics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jo Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.prconversations.com/index.php/2009/09/from-paul-seaman-defending-public-relations-against-social-media-hype/comment-page-1/#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prconversations.com/?p=585#comment-1802</guid>
		<description>For anyone following my telegraph comment here is a link to a paper from LSE expanding @Paul&#039;s correction of my statement that the telegraph created journalism.  It created Reuters perhaps - news agencies - here are more details than I have at my fingertips

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/pdf/FACTSPDF/FACTs17GB.pdf

@Paul I think it is the sweeping statements that make people feel something has been left unsaid.

Rules for whom?  And in what respect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone following my telegraph comment here is a link to a paper from LSE expanding @Paul&#8217;s correction of my statement that the telegraph created journalism.  It created Reuters perhaps &#8211; news agencies &#8211; here are more details than I have at my fingertips</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/pdf/FACTSPDF/FACTs17GB.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/economicHistory/pdf/FACTSPDF/FACTs17GB.pdf</a></p>
<p>@Paul I think it is the sweeping statements that make people feel something has been left unsaid.</p>
<p>Rules for whom?  And in what respect?</p>
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